Who is the "most famous Lesbian in the world?"

[liamstliam]

The New York Times has an excellent analysis on where same-sex marriage stands, based on the appearance of Ellen DeGeneres and her partner Portia de Rossi, on Oprah.

I would have recommended it anyway, but I did have a little furrowing of the forehead when Ms. de Rossi was quoted as saying Ellen was "the most famous lebian in the world."

Here's the context:

A decade ago, she had trouble getting work, a development that she and many observers chalked up to her being “the most famous lesbian in the world,” as Ms. de Rossi described her on “Oprah.”

But now she’s on the cover of the current issue of O magazine, exclusive real estate usually inhabited by Ms. Winfrey alone. She’s a pitchwoman not only for American Express but also for Cover Girl makeup, a heartland product if ever there was one.

Now, observations aside, who do you think is the most famous Lesbian in the world.

(I think we can do this without getting too tied up in "Well, she's really bisexual," for whatever value of "she" we mean.)

Anyway, my immediate thought, being a man of a certain age, was Martina Navatrilova, the great tennis player.

Is it an age thing?

A "general public vs. those of us who know a lot of Lesbian/Bi folks" question?

Where does your mind go on this one?

Comments

[dreda.livejournal.com]

"Most famous in the world" has to be "most famous to the general public," I think. Martina hasn't made as much of a public career out of being out. I would tend to agree with Portia on this one, even though I'm sure she's a little biased. ;)

[dulcinbradbury.livejournal.com]

Yah... I really have no idea who Martina Navatrilova is. And even if I were older, I don't think I would. I don't follow sports generally.

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure: Rosie O'Donnell is pretty famous, but I don't know if the fame spreads world wide. Additionally, back in the day, Jodie Foster had some significant name recognition. Melissa Ethredge is pretty famous.

Aging myself, Billie Jean King certainly had world wide fame, but I don't know who remembers her anymore (I had to explain the Geico commercial to my children) Eleanor Roosevelt, same scenario. Gertrude Stein is pretty famous. Of course, those last two are dead. As is Aileen Wuornos, although I'd argue she's notorious rather than famous -- but if Charlize Theron plays you in the movie, you probably rate somehow...

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

...Jodie Foster is gay?

[derekl1963.livejournal.com]

Other than Ellen DeGeneres, a lousy comic whose ten minutes were over a decade ago (and who has made a career out of making her sexuality an issue), I actually can't recall offhand the sexual orientation of anyone 'famous'.

(Lengthy observations snipped.)

[peregrinning.livejournal.com]

I think there's a difference between:
- "Famous for being a lesbian" (which in my mind Ellen DeGeneres wins for the general populace of the U.S.)

- "Famous in lesbian circles" (various bloggers, cartoonists, etc. come to mind, and I'm embarrassed I can't pull up their names at this time)

- "Famous and also a lesbian" (where other far more famous people would win out, if I knew or cared to tag them as lesbian).

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

You said what I meant to say: with more cunning. :-)

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

It is a puzzling question - but not an interesting one, to me.

To answer it: I think that most "famous" gay people are famous for what they do, and when the inevitable celebrity slosh follows them around, it turns out they are gay. But while they are not afraid to be known as gay, they are not "primarily" gay.

Ellen DeGeneris has, since her TV show, been as famous for being gay, and has successfully exploited her sexual preference, as she has been famous for her skills and talents. She is also quite disarming: charming, funny, unassuming. She, as a professional character, is alarmingly unchallenging as a person.

I don't know Ms DeRossi's intentions or nuanced meaning, but I think a case can be made that Ellen is equally famous or infamous for her sexual preference than her large-scale talent, because her talent is in being pleasant but non-threatening as a host, or comedian.

[sageautumn.livejournal.com]

Hm. I'd agree she probably was the most famous lesbian in the world a decade ago. I wonder when that phrase was turned.

And... hmm... I'd say she's probably one of the most famous for being gay, yes.

Otherwise my head goes to Lindsay Lohan, but I think that's because I read a guy that talks about her all the time. :)

And as for the most famous person, who is also a lesbian... my bet is they're not out.

[mesatchornug.livejournal.com]

my immediate response to your tagline was that this was probably going to be about ellen, though i was hoping for ms etheridge.

most of the others that have been mentioned fall into the "famous and happen to be lesbian" crowd, rather than "famous lesbians"

[jenwrites.livejournal.com]

I think she's right about Ellen -- she was one of the first hugely popular female entertainers to come out of the closet, and did so with a huge media blitz, making her the "lesbian entertainer" for quite some time before she simply was seen as an entertainer who happened to be lesbian. That didn't happen so much with the others.

[whildbill.livejournal.com]

I had no idea that Martina Navatrilova is a lesbian.

Actually, I had no idea that most of the folks mentioned in the comments here are/were not straight. Rather enlightening, in some ways.

*muses* Also makes me think I may not paying enough enough attention to the world around me.

[derekl1963.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I'd say you're probably paying about the right amount of attention.

Does it really matter if $FAMOUS_PERSON is gay or not beyond salacious/prurient interest?

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

I blush to admit that I don't really pay much mind to the sexuality of people I'm not personally interested in.

Although if Jodie Foster shops at my mall, I'm suddenly a lot more interested in her sexual preferences.

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

Wow, thanks for the contribution to bisexual invisibility.

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

A very valid point, and I apologize, particularly as I should have known better when referencing Eleanor Roosevelt.

[gwyneth1362.livejournal.com]

kd Lang and The Indigo Girls sprang to mind for me, but none of them is probably as well-known world-wide as Ellen.

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

ladykathryn has a good point.

Bisexuals==not lesbians.
Bisexuals==not straight people.

We exist, our choices are valid and normal for us, we're not experimenting, we're not secretly transitioning to gay, we're not doing it for attention, and when you smush bisexuals in with either gay people or straight people, you're suggesting that at least one of the above is true.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

She *does* have a good point.

I did my best to explain in my response to her and in my intitial post.

Again, I think we have a view that the general public does not have.

[maverick-weirdo.livejournal.com]

Alive or Dead? is my first thought

Interesting point

[cristovau.livejournal.com]

I would certainly say that Ellen is the most famous in America and even Ms. de Rossi discusses her heartland credentials. However, her sitcom and her talk show are very American products. I'm not sure how her fame is noted world-wide.

Whereas, I think you are right, Liam. Martina, an internationally acclaimed athlete, is a notable figure on the world stage and popular in countries that have never heard of Ellen.

I think calling Ellen the most famous lesbian in the world is a bit American-centric. But then again, my International view of the world is Czech-flavored, skewing Ms. Navratilova's popularity - so your mileage will vary.

[aerynne.livejournal.com]

Considering that my reaction was "who the heck is Martina Navatrilova?", I'd be voting for Ellen. I don't know that she actually makes the "most famous" cut, but I definitely am more aware of her than your example, even though I'm not a TV watcher. I'd guess it's a generational thing.

There's also the question of whether she's the most famous lesbian or just the woman most famous for being a lesbian. I'd say, for example, that Jodie Foster is more famous than Ellen DeGeneres, but when I think of "famous lesbians", Ellen DeGeneres comes up first.

[cypherindigo.livejournal.com]

An I displaying my age by saying Billie Jean King?

[blaisepascal]

There are a lot of women who might be more famous than Ellen who are out lesbians, but few chose to use their fame and visibility to come out like Ellen did. Ellen came out during a very hyped episode of her somewhat autobiographic-based sitcom. Her show turned from being about Ellen to being about lesbian Ellen.

You mentioned Martina Navatrilova, but she didn't yell "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" while holding up the Rosewater Dish. Her personal life was talked about, but didn't carry over to her area of fame. Mellisa Ethridge didn't french-kiss her girlfriend on stage at Madison Square Garden. Similarly with Rosie O'Donnell.

I think, compared to Martina, Mellisa, Rosie, etc, Ellen is famous now for being a lesbian, as opposed to being an actress or comedianne. She is probably one of the more famous lesbians, as oppose to being one of the more famous people who happen to be lesbians, if you see the distinction I'm trying to make.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Yes. Ellen is famous for coming out as a Lesbian on a TV sitcom.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with Ellen being famous for, well, advancing the visibility of lesbians. And also for being a fairly ordinary person with a certain level of entertainment talent along with it.

maybe it's because i'm a weird person....

[dwarvennomlet.livejournal.com]

I don't know why it pops up, but when I think of 'most famous lesbian in the world' Sappho comes up.

But nobody mentioned her. Hmm.

[jackoutofthebox.livejournal.com]

Ellen DeGeneres has my vote.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

It seems as though one of the common themes here is that Ellen is famous *because* of her sexuality and that she trades on it, and that's why she's "famous."

There are others who have done more for the GLBT community or for an industry or academic field, but she's who she is precisely because of who she is.

(It made sense when I wrote it).

More when I get home.

[rising-moon.livejournal.com]

Depending on the decade, I would have said the most famous lesbian was Billie Jean King, Martina Navratilova, Jodie Foster (though she was then closeted), Ellen DeJeneres, Cynthia Nixon, etc.

It's interesting to note the comments which ascribe Ellen's success to her exploiting her sexuality. Does anyone, besides me, remember the decade of career death and radio silence that followed her coming out? I'm shocked that she persevered.

*sigh*

I do feel a little thrill of excited interest when a public figure comes out, and a little self-validation as well, so I'm admittedly biased in my admiration for people who take that step. It doesn't occur to me that someone would announce their sexuality, opening themselves up to public revilement and hate mail, for personal ambition.

[derekl1963.livejournal.com]

"It's interesting to note the comments which ascribe Ellen's success to her exploiting her sexuality. Does anyone, besides me, remember the decade of career death and radio silence that followed her coming out?"

Yes, that's precisely our point - one career (actress/comedienne) died, and was replaced by another (professional lesbian). In the latter, she is remarkably successful.

"It doesn't occur to me that someone would announce their sexuality, opening themselves up to public revilement and hate mail, for personal ambition."

Nobody has claimed she did it for personal ambition, only that she's ridden the twist her career has taken quite adroitly.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Dude, the possibility that Ellen and her partner were considering having a baby was discussed in People Magazine.
With the same breathless excitement they discuss EVERY OTHER celebrity's possible impending parenthood.

So, except for (I can't remember which) 20-something skinny long-haired famous partygirl who is supposed to be bi and is therefore possibly more famous because People readers and phallically-fixated boy-men know all about her, Ellen would be pretty famous.

[deafelis.livejournal.com]

Coming back to read comments later...

I did not know that Martina Navatrilova was/is anything other than straight. Therefore, she is not in the running in my mind.

I don't know what Eddie Izzard is, nor whether he or Ellen would be more famous.

I really don't pay attention to famous peoples' social lives, so I can't give you a good answer, though Ellen being near the top doesn't surprise me a bit.

[deafelis.livejournal.com]

I looked it up. Eddie Izzard is a straight transvestite.

I had no idea any of the others mentioned here were/are anything other than straight.

I do agree with the questions about whether they meant "lesbian who is famous," or "famous as a lesbian."

Given all of that, my closing comment above still stands. I just don't pay enough attention to know or care. :)

[aishabintjamil.livejournal.com]

I can't say I'd given the question much thought before reading this entry.

I'm inclined to say Ellen is right up there, for one simple reason. She's contributed an image to popular American culture. She may have only had one memorable show (I don't really watch TV, so all I've ever seen of her work is a clip of the famous "lesbian" episode), but that bit has crept into common use. I can make jokes today with friends who were adults when the show aired but who aren't huge TV watchers about getting the toaster oven for converting someone, and they get it. It's become an icon.

[irisira03.livejournal.com]

I'm inclined to agree it's Ellen DeGeneres.

She, more so than any of the other women listed in this post, has truly made it socially acceptable to be a lesbian. Melissa Ethridge is probably #2 on this list. HOWEVER, I think Melissa's fame is (in part) because she's a lesbian, Ellen's is in spite of it.