Who is the "most famous Lesbian in the world?"

[liamstliam]

The New York Times has an excellent analysis on where same-sex marriage stands, based on the appearance of Ellen DeGeneres and her partner Portia de Rossi, on Oprah.

I would have recommended it anyway, but I did have a little furrowing of the forehead when Ms. de Rossi was quoted as saying Ellen was "the most famous lebian in the world."

Here's the context:

A decade ago, she had trouble getting work, a development that she and many observers chalked up to her being “the most famous lesbian in the world,” as Ms. de Rossi described her on “Oprah.”

But now she’s on the cover of the current issue of O magazine, exclusive real estate usually inhabited by Ms. Winfrey alone. She’s a pitchwoman not only for American Express but also for Cover Girl makeup, a heartland product if ever there was one.

Now, observations aside, who do you think is the most famous Lesbian in the world.

(I think we can do this without getting too tied up in "Well, she's really bisexual," for whatever value of "she" we mean.)

Anyway, my immediate thought, being a man of a certain age, was Martina Navatrilova, the great tennis player.

Is it an age thing?

A "general public vs. those of us who know a lot of Lesbian/Bi folks" question?

Where does your mind go on this one?

Comments

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

The quote was "most famous Lesbian in the world."

If it had been "most famous Bisexual in the world" I would have approached it that way.

(I feel like I am on BiPolyPagan Geek.) ;)

In my experience most people who are seen as Lesbian or Gay *are* in fact, bisexual.

Certainly a number of folks we have mentioned are.

I think we are the choir, in some respects.

I think to the general public, a woman who is attracted to (insert: sleeps with if you'd like) women, is a Lesbian, even if she sleeps with guys, too.

(Of course to the general public, if you are married, you only sleep with your spouse, and we know that to a lot of the general public, that means it's someone of a different sex.)

Anyway, I was *not* trying to insult or ignore bisexuals.

I think that's another mountain to climb.

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

Honestly, here's the thing Liam. Even in the company of people who presumably know better, "let's ignore the fact that so and so isn't a lesbian - is she the most famous lesbian in the world, and if not who is?", followed by a flood of suggestions for "most famous lesbians" who are actually bisexual, doesn't really make it feel like anyone who knows any better is in the room. It's an issue that constantly pops up, and every time it happens bisexual women disappear into the woodwork a little bit more, and soon no one remembers that Ellen Degeneres or Lindsay Lohan or Eleanor Roosevelt or so on and so on are bisexual.

[dreda.livejournal.com]

Ellen identifies as bisexual? That is new news to me.

(If people identify publically, I feel like all I can do is take them at face value. I would be curious to know where she's identified as bi, since she manages to do a fairly delicate dance about being obviously queer while very rarely saying the word "lesbian" or anything else.)

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

She did when she first started dating women. I couldn't say whether she currently does, I don't really follow celeb gossip.

[dreda.livejournal.com]

Hunh - fascinating. I may do a little surfing around on this one - she may have elided it after so many years of being America's Lesbian, simply for the sake of being easily parsable.

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

Well, everyone was going to call her a lesbian anyway. If I were her I'd probably go with it for the sake of my media career, too.

[dreda.livejournal.com]

And if asked now - well, why wouldn't she stick with her story, even if slightly elided? And if that's how her wife describes her, then I will defer to Portia. I have too much to do already correcting the people who keep calling me a lesbian.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

I am trying to use this as a "learning moment," as we teachers like to say.

It wasn't more than two or three years ago that I thought same-sex unions were just as good as same-sex marriages.

Bear with me on this, I am trying to wrap my brain around it.

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

I know you try, and I'm sorry for slapping out at you over it. One tires of becoming invisible every time one's sexual involvement status resolves. It's kind of like being Schrödinger's fuck, you know?

[dreda.livejournal.com]

*splorf* May I, pretty pretty please, take that phrase home and feed it and pet it and keep it?

[pelican-girl.livejournal.com]

Is there documentation for Eleanor Roosevelt being bisexual? I remember the lesbian community wanting her to be lesbian, but not finding that "definitive piece of evidence". Is there something concrete pointing to bisexuality?

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

A series of letters between Eleanor Roosevelt and her friend Lorena Hickok are highly suggestive of a romantic relationship between them. And of course, she was married to Franklin Delano Roosevelt for quite a long time. It's not absolutely concrete that she was engaged in a romantic affair with a woman, but if she were, she would have been bisexual rather than lesbian.